A40 Somerset steering idler

[charlie-farlie]

Hi everyone.

Can anyone tell me what oil/fluid to top up my steering idler with, please? I checked it when replacing my king pins and discovered it is virtually empty.

Many thanks.

Robin

[number5]

In owning initially two A70’s, followed then with several A90’s in which with two, undertaking some 800,000 miles, general purpose grease has always been an effective lubricant in the idler, as well the king pins and ball joints.

Cheers-Peter.

[charlie-farlie]

Hi Dave,

Many thanks for your message. I hunted high and low in both the service manual and the instruction book and couldn’t find the type of lubricant required for the idler anywhere but I cleanly missed it, hence my post.

I have been told several different types of lubricant for the idler from engine oil to shock absorber oil but never grease! I took the square plug out and dipped it with a drinking straw, hence I knew it was empty. I will use exactly what you suggest, Dave, as I already have some of that. I have used grease in the king pins and ball joints. Thanks as ever for your help and advice.

With my sincere thanks and warmest regards.

Robin

[number5]

No problem with Dave not being in agreement, but in my experience of driving  these cars since 1965, the evidence is in-there is no problem in using grease. With travelling 300,000 miles in my coupe,  the idler has been lubricated with grease, and it still the original.  The same with my previous convertible,  travelling 475,000 miles from 1980 to 2001, when I sold it that year, it still hade the original idler as well.   If oil is to be used, make sure the seal is OK,  for if it is defective, it will soon be empty again.  You mentioned that you had replaced the king pins etc, but only checked the idler, and it needed fluid. If the seal is OK, where did the original oil go?

This brings me to a point on steering boxe lubrication.  These days, I use Penrite “Lube”, which is an excellant lubrication for applications where there are mating gears, as it really klings to the componants.  Also, where there are seals that may tend to weep, unlike oil, it is does not tend to pass through a seal that would otherwise allow oil to exit the housing.  Some time ago, it was suggested to me that this could be used in the idler, though it would need an air operated gun, which I don’t have.

Happy Austineering.

All the best-Peter.

 

 

 

[charlie-farlie]

Hi Peter.

Many thanks for your message.

Since I purchased my Austin a few years ago, Dave Whyley has given me much advice and has sold me parts to improve my Austin further so I have always trusted what he says and still do.

I think that when my Austin was restored prior to my ownership, a lot of parts were removed from the car, emptied, cleaned, refitted, but not topped up again. The car had an empty steering box, empty shock absorbers, no grease in the ball joints and now I discovered, an empty idler. Everything else was topped up as I went along and made the discoveries, apart from the idler. I topped it up yesterday as per the advice of Dave Whyley and went for a ten mile drive. I have just checked the idler and it is completely dry and the fluid it still at the treads so thankfully, it doesn’t appear to have a leak.

Replacing the king pins, topping up the steering box, lubricating the felt pad via the steering wheel boss and topping up the idler has made the steering a little bit lighter but it is still heavier than I remember them from the 70s. I cannot remember if the steering wheel should self-centre after turning a corner but mine never has. Anyway, the car is now useable again.

With my sincere thanks and warmest regards.

Robin

[number5]

All Good Robin– It is good to have someone to ask assistance of.  Having spent 60 years in the electro-mechanical industry, which at times involved large turbines that operated at really high speeds, there were many instances when one did not have a manual to refer to, and such then relied on own teachings/learnings to resolve problems. Lubricants have been part of that experience, so knowing what can be used as an alternative, still giving what is needed is imortant. Not quite sure what you mean that there is no apparent leak with your idler seal, but yet, after topping it up, it is empty after a very short run.

You mention heavy steering.  My ’48 Atlantic is very light, much moore than my ’51 coupe. Why, I don’t know, but when rebuilding my convertible, as there were no problems with its steering box, it still has its 1948 oil, and I can turn it with one finger.  At 855000 miles, it still has all of its original king pins, and idler, though it has grease in it.

Have you seen the upper bearing kit made initially for the BN1 healey 100-4 cars, for it is an excellant product, making the steering extremely light.  I think this kit would also fit the Somerset, though you would need to check on this.  If it does fit the Somerset,  I am suure it could be installed reasonably easy. Could be worth investigating.

All the best-Peter

 

 

[charlie-farlie]

Hi Peter.

Many thanks for your message.

I think you misread my last post. I said that after topping it up, I went for a ten mile drive. This morning, I checked it and it was dry and the level is still at the threads from when I topped it up. I didn’t say it was empty again. Saying it was dry meant that it was dry on the outside, not the inside.

I said was when I purchased the car, the steering box, shock absorbers and the idler were all empty, there was no grease in the ball joints and very little in the king pins. When the car was stripped for a rebuild, nothing was topped up again. I don’t think that car had seen a grease gun in decades.

This is the first Austin I have had since my A60 in 1981. From memory, that was fairly heavy but I cannot remember if it was as heavy, or more heavy, than my Somerset. I know that it is heavier than my friend’s A55 mark one but it is lighter than another friend’s A50. They seem to vary immensely. I do know that it is a thousand times heavier than a 1937 Packard 120! The A55 mark one is now on it’s third set of king pins, the first replacement set being fitted when the car was four years old, so to still have the original set on your car, I consider you to be very fortunate.

As for the Austin Healey,  I know nothing about them, other than they are very expensive!

I did, at one point, consider having electric power steering fitted to the Somerset but because of the column gearchange, it is not an easy option. As I mentioned previously, I don’t know if the steering is supposed to self-centre after manoeuvres

Thanks again for your help and advice

Warmest regards and best wishes.

Robin

 

 

[number5]

Hi Robin,

The Atlantic derived its suspension from the A70, which used the A40 components, and this was then used on the BN1 Healey, and I am sure on the BN2.  Some time ago, one of the Healey parts suppliers, not sure who, developed a new bearing ass’y to replace the upper stainless and bronze washers that are in the top of the fulcrum.

This consists of a ring that has small diameter balls around it, and mating top and bottom ball caps. I think it also is supplied with shims for adjustment, though not positive about that.  It was designed to make the steering lighter, and  comments I have heard would tend to verify this.  I would think that the Somerset would also have the same arrangement as the ones mentioned.  If your steering is quite heavy, the use of the ball bearings in the upper fulcrum nshould help. Whilst I would have an Atlantic cap I could measure the inner diameter of, I don’t have a Somerset one.

With my  convertible, as mentioned, the steering is extremely light, and can be driven easily with just one finger to do the turning. This particular car is the 5th prototype Atlantic made, though the steering box is identical to the later production cars. The coupe models were altered slightly to discard the adjustable thrust on the peg, by using shims under the cap, which I think is what the Somerset has.  On my coupe, there was a verys slight “glitch” when turning the wheel, and I found that when I dismantled it, there was was some gaulling on the top and bottom bearing balls. As the rball running surfaces were still good, with a light linishing on these, as well the peg ball surfaces, all new bearings were fitted, and it was all good.

However, looking into the future, I fitted a convertible one I had rebuilt that has the adjustable peg.  Whilst it is the same as the proto one, I hope that once on the road it will be just as light to steer. Just at this time, I can only drive it for a few meters in my driveway.

As for self centering, yes, they should tend to straighten , though I have found that with cross ply tyres, not to the same extent as with radials fitted. I have 175/70 on the convertible, and 185/70 on the coupe, as it has 4 inch wide rims.

So, check out the ball races for the top of the King Pins, it could be the answer to your problem.  Apart from the need to jack under the spring to take the weight off the shocker, there is no significant dismantling to undertake.

All the best-Peter.

[charlie-farlie]

Hi Peter,

Many thanks for your message.

Apart from the stub axle, I have replaced the king pins as a complete kit that was supplied by Ray. I have replaced all of the bushes, the front springs, track rod ends and ball joints, wheel bearings, cylinders, brake shoes and loads of other worn parts on the front end, so I will not be replacing or trying anything else at the wheel end. The only things that I haven’t replaced are the steering box, idler and the tube that runs down the inside of the steering column. I’ve spent a fortune on this car and probably haven’t had more than 500 miles of enjoyment from it in the four years I have had it. It has had broken rear springs, gear change cable failure, fuel pump failure and carburettor replaced (several times) as well as having things stolen from it while in storage, including a brand new/old stock water pump!. It still has running issues so I feel that I have finished spending on the steering now. Next year, if my health hasn’t finished me off, I may remove the head and attack the bad running problems that it has had since I purchased it.

Many thanks for your tips and help.

Warmest regards and best wishes.

Robin

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